LetLetLet ~ Warplanes

Let Let Let - Warplanes => Warplane Art => Topic started by: santynus on June 12, 2007, 08:03:16 PM

Title: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: santynus on June 12, 2007, 08:03:16 PM: Challenge- Sabre rules :-wise

We will all cooperate during this project. Simply upload what you have done, work in progress and this is it. In the particular project everybody will be included in the cover of each other. We don't fight for life here, we do not make competition. No winner just nice friendly challenge.

Contact direct Felix for drawings and he could provide the best for you.

Every one will get sample of this drawings and it is in order to keep it for color profile only!!! Do not dare to forward this drawings to any else [even from this forum] or publish it anywhere!!! Profile you made is your property and you can use anywhere you want.

It is not important how you will make color profile. Goal is to be made in the 2D digital way but no problem to make it in oil painting if you prefer.

Working size- in your PC you always work in the publishing size. This mean A3 or A4 form, 300 DPI. Here is presented in the web size, this mean 72 DPI 800 pixel wide just for the BBCode linked images.

Good Work :-tri
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 12, 2007, 08:27:04 PM: There is one from famous yugoslav display team and I opened Sabre challenge.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 12, 2007, 08:35:19 PM: Damn good color profile!!! I put this topic as temporary sticky :))
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: mfg495 on June 12, 2007, 08:52:13 PM: Quote from: No.1 on June 12, 2007, 08:35:19 PM
Damn good color profile!!! I put this topic as temporary sticky :))

:-obey :-obey kneel before you great one :))
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 12, 2007, 09:11:44 PM: Once more, there is a same aircraft during his services in battle camo end of seventies. After his services in acro group this aircraft was overpainted in camo sheme under surfaces FS 35164 p.r.u blue and upper surfaces two camo sheme light olive FS 34102 and sea grey medium 36187.
After services this aircraft was displayed in one of yugoslav army training camp.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Dr.Lift on June 12, 2007, 09:24:56 PM: nice job :-clap :-obey
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: santynus on June 12, 2007, 09:30:50 PM: Wow :-eek really nice work bogsituacije :-clap :-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 12, 2007, 09:48:33 PM: Excellent start bogsituacije
I like them :-clap
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 12, 2007, 09:51:33 PM: Great work bogsituacije and very quick :-clap. Everyone else, I'm making up a slightly different drawing which will include a layer of parts to allow you to do a Korean War era F-86F or late F-86E also. I'll send that one along to you also bogsituacije. They should show up later this evening (US of A time) :-salut.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: mfg495 on June 12, 2007, 09:53:30 PM: Thank you felixdk for your time :-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 12, 2007, 10:58:52 PM: I have only one more question to felixdk

Are your drawings include a F-J-3 version?
I only wanted to know because US NAVY had beautiful aircrafts of this version!
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 12, 2007, 11:12:10 PM: Thanks everybody for comment thanks a lot :-love :-love :-love.
There be more for other country also :-tri :-tri.
Felixdk thank you specially for this great magnificent drawing because without them I can make anything.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 13, 2007, 12:12:08 AM: And now some metal finished.
This aircraft represent a mettalic yugoslav sabre wich flown by JRV PVO Yugoslav air force middle 60th.
Now they are in collection of engineers university of Belgrade
Verry intersted is amblem with bomb attacking flying shark.
Uhhh that was hell of day.
Rest of profiles next days...
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 13, 2007, 10:31:06 AM: bogsituacije

is it you :-eek :-eek what a quick technique advancing. Your profile was good but this is now new age color art!!! All right- it is time for me to retire and let younger to rule the world :-razz

Congratulation for this very skilled work
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: santynus on June 13, 2007, 11:02:49 AM: :-eek bogsituacije your matural metal effect on this artwork look great :-clap :-clap very interesting the subject and emblem insignia :-ok :-wave
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 13, 2007, 11:03:50 AM: All I have to thank No1 you introducing me magnificent tool hes majesti pen. Thanks a lot for those lesson.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 13, 2007, 11:06:23 AM: Thanks Santymus you also introduced me some of tehnique thanks mate without help from No1, Santymus, Felixdk and others from this forum I cant do anything.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 13, 2007, 12:04:49 PM: Thanks to you, we're off to a great start :-ok.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 13, 2007, 06:36:23 PM: Quote from: Metar on June 12, 2007, 10:58:52 PM
I have only one more question to felixdk

Are your drawings include a F-J-3 version?
I only wanted to know because US NAVY had beautiful aircrafts of this version!

I didn't see your post before, Metar, so this is a little tardy, but the FJ-3 is pretty much a different a/c. The fuselage is changed almost totally to accommodate a larger engine and different canopy and armament. The FJ-2 is much closer to an F-86E or F, but those served with the Marines and were ground based. So far, I've only really done the F-86A/E/F and the Canadair mark 2/4. The next version was to be the Mark 6 (Orenda engine and 6-3 wing with slats). I agree with you, though; the FJ-3s and FJ-4s did have some nice markings.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 13, 2007, 10:25:51 PM: (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/Warplane/sabre3.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/Warplane/sabre2.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/Warplane/sabre1.jpg)
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 13, 2007, 11:39:27 PM: There is something new and contain two new profiles and represent evolution natural metal finished sabres in Yugoslav air force 60th
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: santynus on June 14, 2007, 12:26:37 AM: Good work my friend :-clap I like so much your graphic page :-ok :-wave
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 14, 2007, 12:46:42 AM: bogsituacije,

Looks like a cover sheet for some decals. Now you just need to do the vector art for the decals :).
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 14, 2007, 02:44:25 AM: Bogsituacije,

Your metal finish is quite good, and the way you have presented the Sabers turns them nicer
Excellent work :-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: mfg495 on June 14, 2007, 08:58:32 AM: Excellent art work :-obey :-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 14, 2007, 12:40:34 PM: For the rest of the world- last art from bogsituacije

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/Warplane/CopyofUntitled-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 14, 2007, 05:15:52 PM: One or shall I say the most important challenge in this Sabre profile is exactly the metal finish.

I'm presently trying to test some ways to achieve the metal look, but so far not successfully as Bogsituacije (you have putted the mark to high, and I thank you for that)

As one of the purposes of Challenge - Sabre is the exchange of experiences or techniques I purpose the following

A basic tutorial about metal finish, I say basic because it will give us just a starting point, and from there each of us will follow his won way
In the end we will have several interpretations of metal finish, increasing greatly the quality of this month challenge.
The tutorial could be very simple, just a couple of steps enough to reach the metal look, even without images, just a simple text will do the work
from this point on each of us will give his finish or interpretation.

The tutorial could be done by Bogsituacije, naturally, or by Nº1

what you guys think about this?
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 14, 2007, 05:32:17 PM: Will be made in one day ;) and will be related on natural aluminum finish.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 14, 2007, 05:39:00 PM: Of course I will prepared some tutorials in spirit of tehnique exchange and some more thing which I learn from No1 and Santymus. There is everything about playing with shadowing bluring and correct use of my favorite pen tool. Of course there is also constantly working. Sometime maybe you will not quite satisfied with result, but most importaint thing is never give up. No1 know how many time I was asking for help and thank to his advices I think that I make some progress. Just see my post sabre couple months ago. Now that sabre look like child draw compared with this. For tutorial I will need some time but i will try to make one soon as possible. Step by step.
And now tribute to korean war sabre aces. Actually this is one aircraft from one book which attract me with hull stripes and old scholl markings.

Ooops I correct my self and put watermark sorry.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 14, 2007, 05:58:23 PM: 4th fighter Interceptor Wing markings. Hand salute from an ex USAF vet :-salut (not that war though). The black stripes on the fuselage would have white stripes between them and be repeated on the outer wing just before the wingtip. I hope I can post my F-86A tonight, work on it has been very slow.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 14, 2007, 06:37:20 PM: I'm trying another approach with better results at least with this one I'm getting close to metal "slightly Look" :-think

Blank canvas with a monochrome linear gradient, search for the best angle

From the photoshop filters menu, choose Filter -> Noise -> Add Noise

Apply the "noise" to taste

Filters -> Blur -> Motion Blur, applying blur to the pixels horizontally. play with how much the pixels are blurred

Also try different opacity and scale percentages with the monochrome linear gradient

This is very very basic, now the gigantic step will be apply this to the Sabre, some thinking will be needed :-think :-think :-think :-think :-think

Comments are very very welcome
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: mfg495 on June 14, 2007, 07:10:45 PM: you guys are way out of my league, I think I will stick to looking at your great work and carry on researching warplanes. (one day I may get my profile finished) :))
Keep up the great work all of you. :-salut :-salut
Title: Correct myself
Post by: bogsituacije on June 14, 2007, 07:26:02 PM: Thanks to my cooperate Felixdk I corrected my tribute to corean heroes.
Thanks again man, you will notice white stripes between black one and also on upper surfaces of wing.
One questions did you planed to draw F-86D sabredog because I think that we can do hell good profiles for this aircraft.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 14, 2007, 07:34:43 PM: mfg495

Come on don't do that I'm also a beginner with no experience with metal finish this will be my first one and I have decided to do it not because it's easy
but because its difficult

I'm not expecting great results with my profile but this will be a start the next ones will be better, but I will never find out if I don't try

Where do you need help?

Let me show what I have done with a lot of thinking and "tenacity"
the metal look is improving :)
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 14, 2007, 07:41:54 PM: this what have made with metal
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: mfg495 on June 14, 2007, 08:10:17 PM: Quote from: Metar on June 14, 2007, 07:34:43 PM
mfg495

Come on don't do that I'm also a beginner with no experience with metal finish this will be my first one and I have decided to do it not because it's easy
but because its difficult

I'm not expecting great results with my profile but this will be a start the next ones will be better, but I will never find out if I don't try

Where do you need help?

Let me show what I have done with a lot of thinking and "tenacity"
the metal look is improving :)
I will give it a go, I even started over my lunch break at work the other day, so not all is lost, there is still hope for me :-crazy
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 14, 2007, 08:18:02 PM: mfg495 I salute you :-salut

that's the spirit

Let me know if you need help, I will be glad to give you a hand if it's on my reach

cheers :-clap :-clap :-clap :-clap :-clap
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: mfg495 on June 14, 2007, 08:48:58 PM: Thank you :-ok :-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: santynus on June 14, 2007, 10:07:22 PM: I'm really courious to see your artwork mfg495 & Metar ;) :)) :-wave
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: mfg495 on June 15, 2007, 08:52:50 AM: Quote from: santynus on June 14, 2007, 10:07:22 PM
I'm really curious to see your artwork mfg495 & Metar ;) :)) :-wave

I will curious to see my own work as well my friend :))
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 15, 2007, 09:07:49 AM: Metal workers- see this:

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/forum/index.php?topic=74.30
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 15, 2007, 12:58:18 PM: Nº1

YES!!!

Great help, thank you,

Time to return to the Blacksmith and Forge
I have metal plates to work
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 15, 2007, 01:04:18 PM: Quote from: mfg495 on June 15, 2007, 08:52:50 AM
Quote from: santynus on June 14, 2007, 10:07:22 PM
I'm really curious to see your artwork mfg495 & Metar ;) :)) :-wave

I will curious to see my own work as well my friend :))

I will be also curious to see my work :))
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 16, 2007, 04:34:46 AM: Before I do the shadows and highlights, I wanted to get the pilot where he belongs. Introducing Lt. Col. James Carlyle, USAF. As long as you don't get too close, I think he'll do. :-salut;
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 16, 2007, 07:44:05 AM: Wow :-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: santynus on June 16, 2007, 11:01:31 AM: :-eek very nice :-obey :-wave
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 16, 2007, 01:20:59 PM: Very cool :-obey :-obey :-obey. Felix rulez :-obey :-obey :-obey :-tri
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 16, 2007, 04:37:33 PM: Truly an eye's delight

The cockpit has some impressive detailed panting

I'm impressed, imagine now the bird ready...

I rest my case,

:-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 17, 2007, 12:11:25 AM: Let me show you my very ,very, first metal strokes

I think that I might be in the right direction
What do you think?
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 17, 2007, 12:16:01 AM: To regret no. You are trying, from my point of view, to paint direct over the drawing. You should make layer over drawings and paint in this layer. Please see again topic "Illustration basic technique". If you have any problemwe can solve this here or in the topic "Speed road to Photoshop"... if you have basic problem in the Photoshop tools and technique.

But shade you have choose is very good and show that you have sense... just you need more practice :)
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 17, 2007, 12:38:27 AM: What you are seeing is a snap shot of my screen
This is made with layers so far 3
The drawing layer at this phase is turned on just to turn the work easy

Let me show you bigger image
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 17, 2007, 12:43:20 AM: And yes I'm following your tutorials specially the metal one,
this is my interpretation of them
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 17, 2007, 02:24:49 AM: As No.1 says, you've got the right idea on the colors :-ok. One of the challenges of shiny bare metal is getting that sense of reflectivity in. You've got the nice, deep blue reflection on the upper surfaces that you would see at altitude. The hard part will be to choose the other tones that you use. Depending on whether the aircraft is flying above clouds or terrain, the bottom surfaces can reflect the bright light of the cloud layer or the dark ground, which does not reflect much light. The light reflected from a cloud layer can remove most of the shadows on the bottom of the plane, causing you problems when you try to achieve a 3D effect. The good part is that you're doing it on the computer, so you get to try it over and over until you're satisfied :).

Layers, layers, layers, that's one thing I've learned in my limited exposure to digital art. I'm afraid that I'm pretty much a traditional artist, not a digital artist like No.1, so other than making use of layers, I do everything with the brush/airbrush/pencil and eraser with occasional forays into masks and solid fills. At least I don't have to clean up the mess that I always make with paints :-green. I think that you're in good hands with his tutorial.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 17, 2007, 07:01:50 AM: Sorry Metar- I see better now :-red Yes- this is good advantage and just go in that direction :-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 17, 2007, 10:51:33 AM: felixdk,

You brought over the table important ideas about the aircraft positioning and how this position interacts with reflections,
I was skipping completely this "important" detail mainly due to lack of experience on my side

With those considerations in my mind I think I will have to change some reflections specially the bottom ones.
watching some Sabre photos will help in this issue

The first thing I have learn when started to use photoshop was layers more layers times layers and never, never, directly touch an image, if you do it you are lost.

I like Oil paintings but I'm a total zero
I have seen on your site "Another Hot Day at Kep" and I like it it has movement and believe me it worth all the mess
I see the mess more as minor collateral effects

Thank for you for your valuable critique
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 17, 2007, 10:57:23 AM: Quote from: No.1 on June 17, 2007, 07:01:50 AM
Sorry Metar- I see better now :-red Yes- this is good advantage and just go in that direction :-ok

No problem at all
Please keep the critique engine at full throttle it's the only way to improve and achieve better results

Thank you
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 17, 2007, 01:07:40 PM: That's very very nice just keep working man.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Skyraider3D on June 17, 2007, 01:53:11 PM: Some have already seen it, but here's a Sabre profile I did some time ago:

(http://skyraider3d.military-meshes.com/gallery/F-86F-25_52-5277_profile.jpg)
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 17, 2007, 01:59:47 PM: Ronnie, you've really handled the shadows beautifully on this profile. I'd love to see you do some 3D images of the Sabre.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 17, 2007, 02:09:33 PM: Metar,

I don't know if it may be of use to you, but one "crutch" that I came up with to help me lay out consistent shadows on the airframe is to create a layer on top of everything else called "sunlight direction" that consists of nothing but a red arrow. It indicates the angle of the rays of the sun (the length of the arrow shows me the angle of the sun from port to starboard, the aircraft, of course, is never backlit). You can move the arrow around as you work to make sure that your shadows always indicate parallel rays.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 17, 2007, 09:11:22 PM: Felixdk,

Yes I will certainly use it

Excellent idea, simple but very effective
Always learning!!!

Thank you
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Dr.Lift on June 17, 2007, 11:07:11 PM: Skyraider3D no comment :-obey :-clap :-obey
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 17, 2007, 11:13:39 PM: Quote from: Skyraider3D on June 17, 2007, 01:53:11 PM
Some have already seen it, but here's a Sabre profile I did some time ago:

(http://skyraider3d.military-meshes.com/gallery/F-86F-25_52-5277_profile.jpg)

Very very nice work like others that I see on youre web page. I salut you :-tri :-tri :-tri :-salut :-salut :-salut
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 18, 2007, 04:06:18 AM: Skyraider3D

This Sabre of yours it's a serious case!

At first, it looks like a photopaste, but then if we look better one realizes that it's really
an extremely good work, top notch job

Remarkable
Everything is perfect,

My congratulations to you :-clap :-clap :-clap :-clap :-clap
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 18, 2007, 08:36:06 AM: Now we know who is the leading artist here :-clap :-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: mfg495 on June 18, 2007, 10:50:34 AM: Only one word - Excellent :-ok :-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Skyraider3D on June 18, 2007, 01:44:58 PM: Thanks very much guys :)

Metar, I will be honest: I did use photo references to get the metallic effect as realistic as possible. I first made a 100% bare metal Sabre using this technique and then added the markings, details and highlights.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 18, 2007, 04:55:50 PM: I knew it!!! :))

Anyway the photo paste technique is good
Useful it in those vertical stabilizers of Frontier Airlines they are beautiful, but in my opinion they can be made only with a good photo paste technique

One good way to crack bare metal profiles

:-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Skyraider3D on June 18, 2007, 09:06:28 PM: Quote from: Metar on June 18, 2007, 04:55:50 PM
One good way to crack bare metal profiles
It sure is, especially if you don't have much time! ;)
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 20, 2007, 08:51:08 PM: All right folks- I have finished all I have, now I have less to work and it is my turn to make color profile of Sabre :-crazy
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 20, 2007, 10:53:52 PM: I cant wait to see No1. I think that will be something awesome
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 21, 2007, 04:40:18 PM: I don't think that I take full advantage of Photoshop's possibilities, so work progresses slowly, but it should be done tonight. Here's the profile so far.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: santynus on June 21, 2007, 06:16:17 PM: Your Sabre look great Don :-obey :-clap I hope to see the complete release very soon :)) :-wave
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 21, 2007, 06:20:03 PM: :-clap :-clap :-clap
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 21, 2007, 07:11:33 PM: Impeccable really good work

This one took my heart :-clap :-clap :-clap :-clap :-clap
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: mfg495 on June 21, 2007, 07:58:48 PM: :-obey :-obey :-obey :-obey :-obey Excellent
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 22, 2007, 12:14:27 AM: Thanks guys, I've gotta get this done, my paint brushes are calling me and I must obey :-eek. Can't wait to see more of yours.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 22, 2007, 11:00:43 AM: This is real masterwork :-obey :-obey :-obey :-obey
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 22, 2007, 05:00:48 PM: This is something that I do when painting these things and I'm wondering if anybody else does this to have a palette of the colors that they've used for, say, shadows, etc. You can, of course, just erase it when the painting is done.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 22, 2007, 05:56:53 PM: Yes, I normally work with swatches, very useful,

By the way, may I use the colors you have pointed out in my swatch ?
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 22, 2007, 06:09:27 PM: Off course you can use- take attention about combination of colors and opacity. All you can see on Felix art :)
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 22, 2007, 09:09:00 PM: Help needed,

Does any one knows were I can see a clear image of the marking (see attached image) seen in the aircraft of 1 Lt Charles "Chick" Cleveland of the 334Th F.I.S. "Lady Luck"
also, if possible, a link to photos of the above aircraft

All the help will be very much appreciated
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 22, 2007, 09:30:51 PM: That's the insignia of the 4th Fighter Interceptor Wing (they started out as the RAF Eagle Squadron in WWII). I know that I've got it several places, but you should be able to find it through Google search.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 22, 2007, 09:37:55 PM: I take it back, that insignia applies only to the 334th FIS. The size and orientation (facing forward or back) of the insignia seems to vary from plane to plane, so it would be helpful if we could find a photo of that particular a/c.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 22, 2007, 10:34:52 PM: Metar,

Feel free to sample to your heart's content :-salut.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 22, 2007, 11:03:02 PM: I'm presently goggling for the insignia, with no luck so far I'm afraid

Let us see with more persistence :))
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 22, 2007, 11:13:42 PM: For insignias I found a very nice link

Check it out

http://www.usafpatches.com/photo/
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 23, 2007, 03:30:29 AM: Here's another one that comes in handy. They have a section on unit heraldry http://afhra.maxwell.af.mil/
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 25, 2007, 07:57:33 PM: :-wave
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 25, 2007, 08:19:02 PM: Beautiful basis to build upon :-ok. The natural metal schemes seem to be popular. I guess everyone likes a challenge :-wall.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: santynus on June 25, 2007, 08:56:02 PM: nice work No.1 :-clap look great your metal effect :-obey :-wave
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 25, 2007, 09:27:02 PM: Problem is that I don't know which airplane to make and bitter problem to get more time for this challenge. But hope this will be over until the end of month ;)

Any idea or suggestion about the final look?
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 25, 2007, 11:23:48 PM: Gentleman,

It seems we have clearly 2 bare metal finish schools, 3 if we count the photo paste

Knowing just a little of Nº 1's work this is already a promising stunner and a way of finishing bare metal :-clap :-clap :-clap

the other is Felixdk true remarkable work and another way of finishing bare metal :-clap :-clap :-clap

Soon you will have a strong example of how you shouldn't do a bare metal finish, mine :-red
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 25, 2007, 11:26:38 PM: Not forgetting Santynus I'm sure he will present another stunner !!!
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 26, 2007, 12:02:20 AM: No worry Metar- I am sure that you will make good art :-razz Here is my progress.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 26, 2007, 04:17:23 AM: Woohhaaa!!!

Yes, give me in small doses, this way I think I can handle it :-wall

I'm having darker starting point :-red

Whta do you think!!!
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 26, 2007, 04:44:20 AM: There's nothing wrong with starting with the dark values and then adding highlights and I would say that you're off to a good start. I prefer working from the middle values and then adding shadows and highlights, but that's because I'm used to working with paint, not pixels. There are several areas on the Sabre that are fiberglass (like the tip if the vert. stab.) or coated metal (the center panels on the wings) so check photos before you make everything shiny. The F-86A was the biggest case of this as it used fibreglass all over the place; even the intake surround was fibreglass on the early As.

Did you find references for the markings that you hoped to do?
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 26, 2007, 06:14:13 AM: Felixdk,

Thank you for your words regarding my dark start,
Good to point out the none shiny surfaces.

Regarding the insignia I have found this one on the link I have pointed out
I will have to correct the circle it's not perfect yet, but I think I can use this one what do you think?
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 26, 2007, 06:31:35 AM: Felixdk,

Regarding Fonts I'm using Amarillo USA but I'm not feeling comfortable in using them what font shall I use ?

Fonts its always a problem, I have hundreds of fonts but none seems to fit in the correct type.

If I can't find one I will have to use the path tool
What font did you use?

Perhaps one could adapt amarillo ?
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 26, 2007, 06:53:30 AM: The 334th insignia looks correct. There were always small differences from plane to plane so, as always, it's best to have a picture of the exact a/c that you're doing. The font that North American used for the buzz numbers was something that they created in-house, especially on the earlier Sabres Some of the later planes did seem to use something close to Amarillo. I used Arial Narrow and then pixelized it and modified it to match my reference photo. Basically, it's rounder than Amarillo.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 26, 2007, 11:18:43 AM: Nice work No1 that is what i like. :-ok :-ok :-ok
Very nice surfaces specially on the tail section, also nice light play all over fuselage. :-obey :-obey
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 26, 2007, 08:41:16 PM: I have finished for today

I have given more light...

What do you think about it?

Time to go out and enjoy a beer, or 2...

Yes I'm on holidays :-jump
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 26, 2007, 08:52:25 PM: Good layer for first time ;)
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 28, 2007, 10:04:48 PM: My slow progress :-roll
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 29, 2007, 02:24:43 PM: Here it is my part of this contest :-joke In regard to the Snatino and his family I decide to make Thai Sabre. Greetings to all :-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 29, 2007, 04:03:15 PM: Nice work very awesome :-obey :-obey :-obey.
This is what make you No1 :-ok :-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 29, 2007, 05:11:21 PM: Thank you man. here it is profile for the visitors:

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/Warplane/CopyofF-86-E.jpg)

We now wait Metar to finish his art and maybe Night Fighter if he has start the work. two day's more left and then we go into the new challenge :))
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: santynus on June 29, 2007, 05:49:56 PM: really nice work No.1 :-obey Thailand will be my second country ;) :-wave
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 29, 2007, 06:29:03 PM: Hi Nº 1,

Yes I'm on it
Still in the panel and rivets phase
I'm working at full throttle :-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 29, 2007, 08:47:40 PM: A Thai Sabre, you took me completely by surprise No.1. Great metal effects. I've had a fairly major disaster on my end. My primary PC with all the art programs and files had a motherboard meltdown a few days ago and the new motherboard that I ordered as a replacement appears to be D(ead) O(n) A(rrival). I'm going to try and install the 30 day trial version of PS CS3 on my ancient "comms and word processor" PC and swap the hard drive and memory in and see what happens, but as I'm leaving for Boston tomorrow morning, I doubt that I'll get to finish my F-86A. Thats OK, as some great work has been done and everytime I see a profile based on my drawing, I'll feel good about it :-ok.

In case anyone has an interest, I'll be visiting the USS Constitution, "Old Ironsides", and will post photos of her on my website after I get my PC problems sorted. She's the oldest warship in the US Navy, having first gone to sea in 1798.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on June 29, 2007, 09:13:09 PM: That will be great felixdk post that pictures soon as you be able :-ok. I am sorry about your PC and I know how bad situation is when loose motherboard :-wall :-wall. Once I discovered that kind of failure on my job and unpleasant is to light word for mess after that :-wall :-wall. Don't worry about your profile you can posted them when you finished even after challenge and you know that every profile which anybody of us has made carry also part of you, because without your most magnificent draw of Sabre :-obey :-obey :-obey which I ever see we cant do anything. So I subscribe every profile as cooperation of you because every of them truly is that :-clap :-clap. Thanks man for cooperate with us :-clap :-clap :-clap :-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 29, 2007, 09:21:59 PM: Thank you Felix for your kind words and sorry about PC. Hope you will soon back in life and you will have nice time on your visit to old warship.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on June 29, 2007, 09:32:08 PM: :-salut :-salut Back to the battle with the PC :-bat.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 30, 2007, 02:41:01 PM: Hi No 1,

I like your Sabre,
Bare metal effect fully archived, the different shades are really excellent specially the blue one, it's a first class job
and the choice of a Thailand air force Sabre was a good idea
The snake is a dam good job,
A true master job :-obey

I will put this profile next to Felixdk profile because they are both remarkable paintings

Vive L'art
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on June 30, 2007, 02:51:55 PM: I'm still working on my Sabre but I think I will finish it today or hopefully tomorrow

In a few hours I will post my progress
Feixdk Computers are very good until the moment they start with problems after this point on they can be a real pain in the "..." and have you noticed how they go along so well with Murphy's Law :-wall

I think we all can feel what you are passing with you computer because one way or another we all have our share in computers problems
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on June 30, 2007, 02:53:07 PM: Thank you Metar ;) Soon or later you will also work like this- I am sure in that :)
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on July 01, 2007, 12:49:55 PM: As well this is July and new chllenge is active I will remove the "sticky" position of this topic ;)
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on July 02, 2007, 06:04:16 PM: Hi everybody,

Just to tell to you that unfortunately I'm a little late with my Sabre. As this project is giving me a lot of pleasure to do I will finish it first and then I will participate in this month challenge.

For this I'm presenting my apologies to all Sabre Challenge participants.
I will enjoy a little more Felixdx remarkable Sabre drawing :))

Once more my sincere apologies to all challenge participants
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on July 02, 2007, 06:15:08 PM: No problem- this topic is here and in any time anybody can place new profiles. So take a time and try new challenge ;)
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on July 02, 2007, 09:29:37 PM: Nº 1,

I wanted to show the present state of my Sabre,
Please note that the markings are only there for the photo, they need more work

Please bombard me with your valuable comments
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on July 02, 2007, 09:30:42 PM: Sorry, :-red
I forgot to add the image
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on July 02, 2007, 09:32:16 PM: All right :)
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on July 02, 2007, 09:45:04 PM: What do you think about the size of fuselage registration numbers?

In my opinion they are a bit over sized, what do think?
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on July 02, 2007, 09:49:55 PM: Maybe but this can be set later in precise position. Now you are going to work on shadows?
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on July 02, 2007, 09:59:37 PM: I'm planing to work the fuse panels like the machine guns, m.g. acsses panels and so on
and then, put the markings and after these finished the shadows
because they will influence also the the markings
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on July 02, 2007, 10:05:08 PM: Metar go nice so far :-ok
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: mfg495 on July 03, 2007, 08:56:01 AM: as always, looking good :))
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on July 04, 2007, 09:27:20 PM: No.1,

I have used your tutorial about making a brush preset, worked nicely on Sabre
machine gun panel

Yes really good :)

Can we have more photoshop tutorials, please :-obey
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on July 04, 2007, 09:44:47 PM: I try to get more time and this will be made... wood grain tutorial, cockpit canopy tutorial, drink beer tutorial, shine metal and gun metal tutorial...
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on July 04, 2007, 09:51:26 PM: Drinking beer tutorial, Ooopss !!!

Hey I'm already fully mastering that technique, :)) :)) :-crazy

The others I will study them all :-paper

When you have the time of course
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: mfg495 on July 05, 2007, 12:14:37 AM: Quote from: Metar on July 04, 2007, 09:51:26 PM
Drinking beer tutorial

That's one I can easily follow :-red :-eek
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on July 08, 2007, 08:17:21 PM: Felixdk,

I have a question for you concerning the Sabre F86 A

Please have a look at the attached image, you can see a round red circle surrounding what I presume to be a metal plate fixed to the aircraft nose with rivets,
I'm assuming correctly or this "metal plate" is made out in any other material?

You help on this would be appreciated
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: santynus on July 08, 2007, 08:28:59 PM: it is not one metal plate is one dielectric plate for cover the hunting radar system :-wave
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on July 08, 2007, 08:49:59 PM: Metar,

The original F-86As had the entire intake surround made of fibreglass, which was usually left unpainted and appears as a buff color in photos. Later F-86As switched to a formed metal surround with a dielectric panel covering the gun ranging radar. That panel was usually a dark gray/black color and was secured in place by a metal band (which is what your arrow points to) secured with removable fasteners.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on July 08, 2007, 09:58:11 PM: Felixdk,

Profile Publications about the Sabre F86A states that the third batch serialled 48-129 to 48-316 were delivered between March 1949 and ended in September the same year

Now I think that Sabre F86A with register Nº FU-129 "Lady Luck" is included in this group, (correct me if I'm wrong).
My question to you is about the use of fiber glass parts what would be the parts in fiber glass in such aircraft?

I regret to bother you with this question but unfortunately I didn't found any photos of this aircraft.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on July 08, 2007, 10:44:42 PM: Metar,

I can't find any specific photo references for this a/c, but from your drawing, it should be 49-1129, an F-86A-5 from the third year's production contracts (1949). Together with the fact that it has the yellow bands for a 4th FG a/c and not the Black/White bands of the original F-86As in Korea, would lead me to think that the nose cone would be the later metal type. The tip of the vertical tail, a panel on the side of the tail, the front of the ventral fin fairing and the wingtips would be visible fibreglass parts.

There are other differences on the A like the short elevator fairing, vee shaped windscreen, navigation lights on the wingtips and some panel shapes. Here's a shot of my still unfinished A with the fibreglass indicated.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on July 08, 2007, 11:56:50 PM: Felixdk,

An image worth a thousand words,
you have solved my problems, thank you :-obey :-obey :-obey
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on July 09, 2007, 12:16:35 AM: :-salut
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: bogsituacije on July 11, 2007, 02:53:16 PM: So nice and so metal clean :-ok :-ok :-ok :-obey :-obey :-obey
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on July 12, 2007, 05:15:10 PM: Thanks bogsituacije.

My PC is back up to speed, so I've been able to finish off the F-86A. I'll revisit it later on and add text and a background for a print, but it's time to get on to my next project.

Metar,

I've attached a photo of the area on the nose over the gun ranging radar. The thinner black area is tape applied to seal the seam. The tape wouldn't be there on an operational aircraft, I think it's just for storage/display.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on July 12, 2007, 08:38:25 PM: Felixdk,

Wooohhhaa, Excellent photo, very detailed, up to rivets level, Yes!!!! :-jump :-jump

Thank you :-obey :-obey

Congratulations for your Sabre

Remarkable peace of Art :-clap :-clap :-clap :-clap :-clap
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on July 12, 2007, 08:57:59 PM: Nice work :))
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on July 13, 2007, 12:24:27 AM: Thank you all and now I feel like a great weight has been lifted from my shoulders, so on to the next gessoed board ;).
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on July 20, 2007, 07:27:45 PM: Here's the probable final version of the print of the Sabre profile (without the copyright notice, of course).
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on July 20, 2007, 08:38:02 PM: Felixdk,

I have only one word:

Superb!!

Congratulations excellent work :-clap :-clap :-clap
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Metar on July 20, 2007, 08:43:04 PM: Regarding light and reflections I'm presently reading a very interesting site

http://www.itchy-animation.co.uk/light.htm

I think that after this reading my future light and reflection work will not be the same
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: felixdk on July 20, 2007, 08:52:36 PM: Excellent find on that website Metar. It's a very good summary of all the factors which drive aviation artists crazy.
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on July 20, 2007, 10:02:36 PM: Nice work Felix :-ok Good for the wall poster.

I just watch site regarded by Metar and it is good one :-razz
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: santynus on July 20, 2007, 10:06:42 PM: Very nice work Felix :-clap :-wave
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: mfg495 on July 21, 2007, 10:50:43 AM: Yes very nice :-ok :-clap
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Wingman81 on March 23, 2009, 01:49:21 AM: Wow that was a great thread...sry I had not seen it before :)
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on March 23, 2009, 08:28:31 AM: Now it is history as well the same idea ;)
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: Nico Braas on March 23, 2009, 09:45:52 AM: Interesting plane that Sabre in Yugo colours. There is a Dutch connection: in the early sixties the Yugoslavian Sabres were overhauled by Avio-Diepen at Papendrecht-the Netherlands. Aviolanda-Diepen was a Fokker subsidiary and also did work on the Fokker S-14 Machtrainer prototype for conversion into a laboratory aircraft for the Dutch Air-and Space laboratories NLR. Work on the S-14 was considerably delayed because the order on the Sabres had a higher priority!
Title: Re: Challenge- Sabre
Post by: No.1 on March 23, 2009, 10:05:29 AM: Nico- this is first time ever I hear that my country is more preferred in business then any another! So if you have more in depth information I will be very glad to hear! Feel free to open new topic or even prepare article for web site :)