The identify the plane thread

[mfg495]

Topic moved 

I think what you are looking at is one aircraft but with a very strong shadow, I think it could be a Me 262, but I'm not sure 

[Wingman81]

Very hard to tell with the bad resolution. The right looks to me as 2 planes or objects. But i dont think its a He162 Mistel because this had V-wings foward bent or normal wings. This one has V-wings backwards. Maybe another plane type carriers it?

http://www.luftwaffen-projekte.de/lwp/jaeger/archiv/me262_archiv.htm
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/Bilderseiten/Me262-R.htm
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14644

[mfg495]

Thanks for your comments Wingman81, I think the left-hand one could be an Me 262 and the other one maybe an He 111 or even an Me 410?

The identify the plane thread

The white box is the area of the enlargement.

The identify the plane thread

[Letipapa]

Hello everybody. Well, I agree with mfg495 that it is one airplane, but my opinion is that it might be that it is probably some two propeller aircraft.
First I looked at buildings that are in the neighbourhood (fot.1 and 2) and I ruffly draw the sun rays direction (red arrows). If follow the sun rays than we conclude that it is one aircraft (pink line) and it's shadow. That aircraft have two engines, to me looks like almost I can see propellers (green arrows), and maybe it has (just may be) two vertical fins on the tail wing (blue arrows, but not likely). What is sure is that aircraft has a wing that has ends of wings higher than its roots (thus the shadow looks like swept wing, but it is not- it is shadow of the ordinary wing that has high wingtips and lower root of wing). I may be wrong, but this are my conclusions in a hurry.
Is there  such a plane in Luftwaffe?

[Wingman81]

@Leti.

So you think the right one is more like a larger bomber 2x propeller type machine with two vertical fins that are higher than the main fuselage wings? Could also be possible.

Ill have a look in my books tonight and post a short llist with my suggestions ;o

[mfg495]

Letipapa you should work in photographic intelligence! Great thinking.

An Me 110 could cover the two vertical fins idea and the other might be an Me 410 

The research continues, thanks for all your comments on this. 

[Wingman81]

Possibilities:

-Ju 86 Variant -> ruled out for nose position
-He 219 "Uhu" -> ruled out for nightfighter
- Ar 240 -> only 15 produced and only 5 prototype of C type were produced
- Me 110 -> best fitting

I left out some trainers that would have also fitted.

[Letipapa]

@Leti.

...with two vertical fins that are higher than the main fuselage wings...

Two vertical fins - it is just a possibility - it looks like on right airplain, and i didn't think that this vertical fins are higher than wings,. but that wings itself a lower near fuselage than at the ends (tips). So It is surely an aircraft which when you look from front side has  wings in slight and shallow "v"form. From the front: fuselage and wing roots one level, wingtips (ends) higher level.
And both aircrafts are two engined, maybe the same type. I also think 90% Me 110.
@mfg495  thank You mate. I just used little knowledge of geometry.

[Wingman81]

It would be easier if we could determine the length of the plane. Do you recce guys have means to determine it from your photos even from far distances? 

[Letipapa]

Well, there is a lot of roads on big photo. Roads in Germany probably had some standards in that time. We should find how much were roads wide, and than compare it with airplain, then proportionally calculate. If I have photo in greater resolution I could find it. Only need to now how much streets were wide.

[mfg495]

I have just been told that the airfield is Berlin-Gatow

[Wingman81]

I have just been told that the airfield is Berlin-Gatow

That doenst makes it easier  . In Gatow was the Luftkriegsschule 2 and Luftkriegsakademie of the Luftwaffe in WWII, which were the most important training facilities for pilots. So it is is likely that there were also many trainer aircrafts around. After the war it was a british operated airfield that took part in the air supply of Berlin. Today there is the Luftwaffenmuseum of the Bundeswehr on this airfield.

[mfg495]

Today there is the Luftwaffenmuseum of the Bundeswehr on this airfield.

See my post

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/forum/index.php?topic=626.0

[mfg495]

I wish to say thank you to all members for their comments on my original post.
I think it shows that it is better to ask the many than to go it on your own.

I did post the same images and question on a specialist Luftwaffe site, some of you may be members, however, I did not get half as many replies and ideas as I did from this team.

Again, thank you for all your help, I may even post some more questions and images in the future.

I'm away on work form tomorrow and the whole of the weekend with no internet access  So I will have to play catch up on all the posts on my return on Monday. 

[Letipapa]

mfg495 , maybe You will not read this, but OK -You will read it on Monday. I've just looked photo's once more time, and I noticed that there is a vivid distance between propellers and cabin (fit.1,white lines, red arrows and "d"). The propellers are more out, and cabin is back. If we consider Me 110, than it is not the case, quite opposite (fot.2.) But Me 210 fits perfectly fot.3). Now I put contours of Me 210 (scaled proportionally, fot.4) over airplanes on photo's. It is hard to see strict edges of airplane, so it doesn't fit perfect, especially on the right plane, but it can also be because of angle of photo (????).
Also there is one symptomatic light spot on the rear part of fuselage (close to tail, red arrow, fot.4) on the right aircraft. What that could be?

That's all, I am so curios to hear what will specialist for Luftwaffe say.